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#1407

Thor 2 amused me because it reminds me of Warhammer 40k and the dark elves are like the Eldar.

I think I’m the only person who hates Civil War, just like I seem to be the only person who hates The Dark Knight (and doesn’t hate Batman or that trilogy in general), but for different reasons. “Who would win?” is just not a question that interests me at all


#1408

Nah, I hate it too. The comic event it’s based off is stupid and it makes even less sense as a film. And it robbed us of a proper 3rd Cap film.


#1409

Yeah, my two nerdiest friends also hate it.

I liked it a lot.

  1. For Spidey!
  2. I like the consequences of the super hero antics and the government attempt to control it. I thought the setup of the trauma Tony Stark endures made his push for regulation make a lot of sense.
  3. I like fun super heroes hitting each other. I’m simple.

#1410

There’s a lot to like in the movie, but my dislike of the core story outweighed it. The Stark set up was actually one of the things I disliked. His actions have already killed/harmed so many people. The idea that one victim being humanized would affect him that deeply seems insulting to his intelligence.


#1411

I think of it as more “the straw that broke the camel’s back.” Yes, he knows his actions have caused a lot of harm to people, some of whom may even have already be humanized for him. Hearing about one more kid to add to the pile of bodies weighing down Stark broke him.

I’m with @twispby, I enjoyed Civil War quite a bit. Sadly, I will also agree with @bruitist, that we were robbed of a proper third Cap film (which have been the best of the Marvel series, IMO) for an Avengers 2.5 film. While Civil War does focus a lot on Cap and his relationship with Bucky/Winter Soldier and Stark, it loses some of that focus to have a big superhero fight. But I did like the conflict between Cap and Stark over what is right and what is easy in regards to Bucky.


#1412

I don’t think this had been portrayed on screen though; he has been relatively carefree through all of the movies. Perhaps this is a time constraint thing, but it seems like something that was forced in there to set up the plot.

What I missed in the movie from the two earlier ones was actually Captain America’s relationship with Black Widow, which was surprisingly satisfying. She seems to be closer to Hawkeye and Bruce Banner, but it’s her relationship with Cap that I find satisfying (without shipping them).


#1413

I’d disagree about that. Tony Stark’s arc over the entirety of the MCU led to exactly that result and his actions in Civil War were all directly influenced from previous movies.
Iron Man: Tony has his revelation in the desert and when Ho Yinsen dies as a result of his weaponry. Decides to build a suit of armor to personally fix the problem
Iron Man 2: Tony believes he’s terminally ill, sets up Rhodey to take armor, refuses to tell people or ask for help, SHIELD determines him too erratic to use
Avengers: Tony grabs a nuclear weapon and flies it through a wormhole in a potential suicide run to save NYC after multiple life/death fights
Iron Man 3 A PTSD suffering Tony gets into a personal fight with a terrorist who bombs innocents and destroys his home, undermining his sense of security, uses dozens of iron men suits to fight them
Avengers 2: Tony has built a whole drone army essentially, then has his own deep fears and lingering PTSD (again, he is TERRIFIED of failing people and being responsible for their deaths) used to direct him to end up creating Ultron, who is himself an extension of that desire to PERSONALLY SAVE EVERYONE. Not to mention building and personally piloting an anti-Hulk weapon; Ultron and his drones ultimately kill a lot of people

Civil War is basically the culmination of several films leading Tony to the place where he reasonably says, “We need to be supervised, because my technology keeps killing people and when i try to use it to fix things, it often kills more people.” Repeatedly, Tony makes things and half the time, they get used in ways he doesn’t want or intend. He feels extremely guilty about it, is suffering from PTSD and has figured out that every time he tries to be the smartest guy in the room, it backfires on him.

Steve, meanwhile, has had a history of going AGAINST authority on moral grounds. In CA: they want him to be a propaganda tool, until he goes AWOL to rescue the Howling Commandos. In CA2: he goes AWOL when he realizes SHIELD has been infiltrated…but he wasn’t on board with Fury’s initiative before it went south. In Avengers, Steve sees first-hand that the council behind SHIELD would willingly nuke New York and isn’t cool with it. In A2 we see that everyone looks to Steve as the moral center.

One thing I greatly appreciated about CA:Civil War was that it was much more logical than the comic series, which had Tony Stark represent the registration side because a lady said mean things to him (after a villain blew up a school) even though he had nothing to do with it. It made even less sense because in the comics, Tony is often more likely than Cap to go against the government when his morals tell him to (or at least FASTER than Cap does, as Cap does it more often, iirc). In the comics, Tony attacked SHIELD agents when he thought they were using his tech, for example (see: Armor Wars, Armor Wars II, Extremis, etc.)

I mean, if you thought the plot had issues, I’d agree with you there…but the movie version of Tony was, IMHO, acting in line with his behaviors up to that point.

Sorry, I did go on there, didn’t I? :slight_smile:


#1414

They definitely had a lot of relationship building in Winter Soldier and they paired very well together. Which is the other of the “two earlier ones” you are referring to (as The First Avenger certainly did not have anything between Cap and BW, being back in WWII)? We’ve seen in the first two Avengers films the closeness between BW and Hawkeye, so it makes sense that it would continue to feature in future films. The relationship between her and Banner did seem to spring out of nowhere in Age of Ultron, but then so did that between her and Cap in Winter Soldier.


#1415

Totally agree with your reading of Stark through the MCU. Having not read the Civil War comics and just having a general understanding of the story, I can’t chime in with anything. :slight_smile:


#1416

It might have been just Winter Soldier. I watched the first Captain America a long time ago.


#1417

FORUM CIVIL WAR!!! :laughing:

Regarding Tony, all the things you have listed only reinforce my point of view. There is a pattern of him trying to solve problems with his machines or technology, it sort of succeeding, but also creating additional problems with sometimes great harm to others, then him doubling down into more technology to fix the problems, leading to even more devastation, and each time he doubles down again. He doesn’t display any realization through all of this that he needs to… not be making more dangerous things and keeps viewing it as the solution and soldiering on despite people telling him not to. The guilt he feels doesn’t manifest in ways that indicate he’s going to change.

Until the moment when a mother tells him to his face that her son was killed.

I think his choice could have been sold to me other ways. Perhaps he’s just tired of being responsible, and the Accord is a way to take that out of his hands, so he doesn’t have to feel guilty anymore. Or his friends finally talk some sense to him and he’s willing to listen after all of the death and destruction. But having the turning point be a stranger telling him about her dead son just seems so trite.

I have no problem with Captain America’s portrayal.


#1418

Should we start a dedicated MCU thread? It’s a broad topic after all these years.


(I’m still very “eehh…” with the epic placeholder that was Infinity War. “yay, all the people, mostly, fairly well written and crammed into this vehicle for selling the next movie. Whoo!” You could see a lot of the same audience “priming” for the next box-office take in Civil War, as well.)


OK, enough of my cynicism! I swear I age 5 years every time I’m critical.

3Below is fun!

Guillermo del Toro doing a thing where he’s not totally creeping the heck out of everyone has turned out pretty well again.

He’s done it a few times before, but you can’t get much farther from Pan’s Labyrinth (and the evilly canned Silent Hill, f.u. Konomi but that’s a whole rant on it’s own) than the kid’s shows he’s been into lately.


#1419

Half patriotism, half because of the crush I have on Dan Levy but the latest season of Schitt’s Creek premieres in the US tonight (it started last week in Canada). It’s a legitimately good show despite how cliche the premise seems.


#1420

I’ve been avoiding Schitt’s Creek simply because it keeps getting recommended in my face constantly online, also because of the horrible blatant 5th-grader pun of the title.

But, if you like it, I’ll check it out.


#1421

2 feet of snow tomorrow and I have stocked up on milk, bread, and scotch. I will cocoon myself in my comfy robe, and watch video entertainments to pass the time. This is my short list:

I have a definite Samurai & Space theme going here.


#1422

Finished rewatching Castlevania season 1 before I went through season 2. Really looking forward to the third.

Decided to start The Punisher season 2, which I forgot had been released already. Curious if it will be the last season of a Marvel show, or if we’ll get one more Daredevil or Jessica Jones.

Edit: Just read an article saying Daredevil has already been cancelled, which leaves Punisher and Jessica Jones. JJ has one more annoucned season, but it sounds like its the end of them all.

I didnt care for Iron Fist, but I really enjoyed the rest. Hopefully Disney cam continue where Netflix leaves off, but I’d be surprised if they released anything as graphically violent as JJ or DD, lwt alone The Punisher. Though I could be wrong given the success most of these shows have had.


#1423

Well done. Especially with Star Blazers and scotch, I’d totally sit out this weekend holed up with SB and scotch.

I do think there should be at least one comparative Western movie by Sergio Leone.


#1424

So, Netflix surprised me (because I’ve been watching a lot of YT videos about mythology, history, games, physics, biology, etc) and when I went back, Solo was there!

(I will totally be a Solo apologist, I thought it was mostly great. Alden Ehrenreich was coached for Ford’s body language, Donald Glover was coached for Billy Dee Williams’ speech patterns, and they kinda nailed it).
(I’d already seen it in theaters, because I’m a nerd)

UNRELATED! also, there is a new round of Punisher.

This new block of Punisher is a lot more human than the rest, so far, even more than when they diverged from his introduction in the MCU into his own series. I need to finish it to have a comprehensible opinion, but it has a grim subtlety most of the MCU Netflix series has lacked.


#1425

I see a distinct lack of Samurai 7 here, if we are going for Samurai and Space. :stuck_out_tongue:


#1426

I took my son to see *Solo last summer, because Star Wars, and we rrally liked it.

I feel like the negativity around it was more because people were wondering ‘why’? It just wasn’t a movie people were asking for.

That said, I’m sad it basically bombed, given the reveal at the end. I was really hoping for something to spin off that!