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The Spoiler-ific Avengers Endgame and other Marvel Madness Discussion!


#41

There are no collapsing realities, only alternate realities. Captain America found a way back to the main timeline through means that were not explained. If they need to come up with an explanation, they can, just like every other bullshit explanation of how things work in the MCU and it wouldn’t have added anything meaningful to the ending.

Like I said, just Thanos by himself is enough bad plot and dumb stuff to fill a thesis, and much worse than the time travel stuff. You’re already aware of his dumb actions/motivations all the way through the MCU and especially in Infinity War and Endgame, so if logic is the problem, then why weren’t the movies already terrible from Infinity War? :stuck_out_tongue:


#42

I’m happy with the idea that they don’t have to return to the “launch-pad” precisely, it’s just a handy origin. Steve just came back to (0,0) plus a little offset.


#43

Yeah, I took it all to be typical sci fi Doctor Who mumbo jumbo, intended as short hand for “don’t worry about it, it’s all ridiculous. Just accept the click was undone and everything else is the same”. I doubt it’ll be referred to much in future other than another event to name check and possibly a storyline about how messing around with time had some sort of ripple effect in the cosmic order that’s so generic as to not need anyone to remember the specifics from the film.


#44

I point you in the direction of today’s Spiderman trailer :grin:


#45

Haha I genuinely hadn’t seen there was a new trailer! I was expecting something more like the Celestials or Living Tribunal in phase 5 - especially now they can work towards Galactus for Fantastic 4.

It would certainly be the next level of craziness up from phase 4. Or maybe they’ll just focus on dimensions for now?

I wonder if they had always planned for the whole dimension thing, or whether Spiderverse’s success pushed things along a little faster.


#46

I watched it this morning and all I could think about was how nervous they must have been about Tom Holland possibly spoiling both Endgame and Far From Home.


#47

My guess is that it’s planned. I’m not sure when Far From Home was being written/shooting, but it was far before they knew if Into the Spiderverse would be well received.

I really love the new trailer, for reasons stated above, but also because I want to see the characters in the MCU deal with the fallout of what’s happened. I was worried this next Spider-Man would gloss over it and be fairly standalone, and it’s still too early to tell, but it looks like they’re addressing it head on.

The alternate dimension thing could be amazing, or it could be a huge mislead of Mysterio being deceptive. I’m hoping for the former, but I’m really good with the latter option too! :slight_smile:

I’m a marvel fanboy, but I’m even more of a Spider-man fanboy!


#48

Yeah, my assumption is that Mysterio is full of shit, but we’ll see!


#49

I’m not so sure anymore. Mysterio coming in from another dimension is certainly fitting with IW/EG, but a scene of Peter Parker actually name-checking a multiverse is something that could easily be fit into a reshoot. Reshoots seem to be moving away from fixing broken movies and more towards inserting more topical hotness and building towards new future plans. Heck, the shawarma post credits scene for The Avengers was shot at the time of the Avengers premiere!

Even the Mysterio link to dimensions could be a last minute addition. We know Samuel L Jackson was involved in the reshoots mid-April (only 3 weeks ago!!!), so those are the kind of scenes that could have been added. So hard to know how the plans have changed between shoots! It would be great if all these backstage decisions and scrapped plans were released in the future.

I’d be VERY surprised if Marvel weren’t at least gearing up for a Spider-Gwen movie after the response to the Spiderverse.


#50

Actually, I think it would be Sony, not Marvel, as Spider-verse was a Sony picture. Technically, so is Far From Home. Gotta love the snarl of rights and licensing involved with all the Marvel property movies. At least some of it has been cleared up with Disney purchasing Fox films.


#51

Sony would be even more desperate. Haha


#52

Saw Avengers last night. Still decompressing.

I personally am glad they went with the Dragonball Z time travel rather than the usual kind. I’m not sure if this helps anyone, but the Sorcerer Supreme makes it clear to Banner that if he doesn’t return the stones that he will be ruining her timeline to save his, not ruining his timeline. Simply by time travelling at all, one creates a new timeline that runs parallel to your own, and thus is ruinable. Changing that timeline (which they do egregiously, heck there’s a timeline where thanos and crew disappear before collecting any infinity stones and then are killed in the main continuity) doesn’t ruin it, only removing infinity stones from a timeline ruins it.

Most everyone stepped up their acting game like crazy. Especially ScarJo, Renner and Downey Jr. times 3,000. The soul-stone fight actually made me tear up, and I’m so disappointed that Black Widow is dead. I really love her character, but it always feels like she gets the short end of the stick. Like, everyone is getting powers and having feuds and adventures, and she’s just trying to keep her new family together. And then she has to die. I know it would be a copout to bring her back, but I don’t want to see a black widow movie unless it has a happy ending, and that was no happy ending.

The flippant tone of most marvel movies was absent here, and though it was almost too morose in the time spent sense, having the characters actually experience grief and depression over things that would totally make you experience grief and depression was refreshing. Thor talking to his mom was a highlight for me. As much as fat thor seemed like a throwaway gag that overstayed its welcome, the idea that he’s actually depressed because he has had so many bad things happen to him makes sense. Also I think they intentionally tried to make him not shine as much in this movie, because Thor was so hugely revitalized by Ragnarok. He’ll be in tip top shape in Asgardians of the Galaxy, which is what they should actually call the movie. Please let Taika have another movie.

Brie Larson was about as nuanced as Cheese Whiz. They wasted her character in this movie, and the very poorly acted arrogance made it 10 times worse. Having a superman character in a marvel movie is already a bad idea. It honestly made me laugh when they had the A-Force women avengers moment (aside from ‘how are they all here at this one moment in this huge battle’) - Carol Danvers (and scarlet witch, actually) doesn’t need your help. She can 1v1 the hulk (provided he’s not worldbreaker, but we’ll never see that, it looks like).
Similar to Superman, if your power is ‘I’m all powerful’ then you should be the main character. If there’s no room for her to be the main character because it would gut everyone else’s character arcs, then maybe you should have waited until after Endgame to introduce her, instead of having her do a couple cool things and then have her slapped off screen with the power stone.

Pleased that Nebula got a lot of screen time. I really like Nebula, like her story and like her portrayal by Gillan. The sister stuff between her and Gamora was hollow in comparison with Guardians 1-2, though, because you can’t focus on it again and really give it time. The fact that original timeline Gamora is permadead BUMS ME OUT TO NO END. Everyone who was mad at Quill for freaking out on Thanos, take it back. Quill gets ‘a’ Gamora’ back to life, but one that hasn’t gone through any of the stuff with him and has no reason to care for him at all. That sucks majorly. It’s not even something they can solve by finding her.

Ant man was great. Being the positive guy when everyone else was miserable is a thankless job. ‘That’s America’s Ass’ was one of the best lines in the entire franchise.

The elevator non-fight scene with ‘hail hydra’ was a superb call back and comic reference.

Prof. Hulk was fine. I was hoping for a rematch with Thanos, and to see some Worldbreaker level power, but they’ve gotta nerf him (or shunt him off to the side a la Captain Marvel) to make the plot have tension.

This has been very stream of consciousness, I’ve got so much running around in my head about this movie I really don’t know where to start.

TL;DR: I’m glad they finished up the old crew’s storylines so completely. This was really about the original Avengers, even if all these other people were in it. They deserved a solid and final ending, and they got it in Endgame. I’m excited to move on with the newer characters like the Asgardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther etc.


#53

I think it must have been tough for her, she had to film her scenes for Endgame before Captain Marvel had even started filming. It was a bit backwards.


#54

Definitely. She was badly written in Avengers. There were even key scenes repeated between the two films. Last thing she does before she leaves is tell Earth there are other planets without protection. First thing she does when she comes back is tell Earth there are other planets without protection (in a much grumpier way). In both films her big moment is ripping a spaceship apart with her energy beams. And strangely, that scene is far more impressive in her own film, even though it’s presented in a way that suggests “if you think this is impressive, wait to see what she can do in End Game!”… the same thing but not as fun(?). And introducing a new character into the joint universe by having them be rude to all the established characters - in a film that is written to idolise the established characters - is an odd way to endear them to the audience. In Captain Marvel her key features are compassion and humour. In End Game, she’s an arrogant exposition machine and little else.

There seemed to be a lot of off screen character development for Dr Strange’s character between his film and IW. The issue is accentuated ten-fold for Marvel. It was just an odd choice. If they were going to rush these things through, why bother at all? Captain Marvel didn’t end up being that vital to the plot of End Game. Certainly not as central as expected at the end of IW. They could have easily put her at the beginning of the next phase (it’s only at the end of this year) and developed her at the natural rate. Speeding that through so fast to fit her into Avengers is an odd mistake to make when Marvel is on such a high.

Even her own solo film seemed a bit rushed in editing. Some scenes were blatantly chopped and changed in post. Those flash back montages didn’t fit together at all: the mini scenes were cut at odd moments as if they were meant to be part of longer scenes. There wasn’t a unified use of framing, movement or colour to tie the cuts together. It was just like someone had gone all Memento on a film that was intended to be a strandard film shot in chronological order! The montage itself was a fab idea, but it didn’t feel to be the original intention of those shots

In terms of power, I don’t think they’ve made her as all powerful as she is in the comics. She’s still pretty powerful, but she seems to be more of a similar power level to Thor (she’s pretty much a Thor/Iron Man hybrid in terms of power set and visuals). She’s a lot better in the MCU for that. I could see her easily fitting in with GotG as the cosmic side of Marvel, especially with the humour. If she was all powerful she’d be too separate from the rest of the MCU - she’d have to be a one and done character.