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The Kickstarter thread


#1771

Thanks, that’s very interesting. I grew up playing 40K and other GW games and really enjoy painting. Still find it a wonderful way to unwind. I think it hadn’t computed that unpainted minis for people who aren’t in to painting could be such an issue. So was just trying to square your thoughts in my head. Cheers.

I avoid a lot of mini games because I find the mechanics tiresome. I have no enthusiasm for GW wargames as I find them unengaging, partly because I’ve internalised dice odds so much and they haven’t changed their core design features enough for me to find the challenge fresh. That being said 40K still seems infinitely more appealing to me than most board games with miniatures that seem to use similar maths and purpose of dice without the subtlety of movement and positioning. Reduce the dice to low numbers for swings and easily calculable movement and I’m utterly bored as the choices become so obvious. I suppose I hadn’t seen that minis themselves would be a barrier. I don’t buy mini games, because they’re mostly rubbish in my opinion. The idea of not buying decent rules and system because it had minis was new to me.


#1772

I won’t say you’re wrong to feel edgy about it - after all, a mere €1 more was what they were charging for Men at Work at Essen, and I didn’t buy that because it felt just a bit too expensive for what it was. On the other hand, I like the tiles and I do think I’ll get a reasonable amount of play out of it.

I don’t care about stretch goals. (I always feel a bit odd being exhorted to “help us reach the next goal” when I’ve already put down my money.) I am obviously happy to get more stuff, but only if it’s interesting stuff; the app, for example, will probably use GMS and therefore be entirely useless to me. (And I don’t like apps at the table anyway.)

All that said, I’m all in for the base game and the two (so far) add-ons. If I had a copy of original Rallyman maybe I would be less keen.


#1774

Realised that Pipeline cost £51 (with shipping), that’s with the KS exclusive discount. No thanks. I’m keen on Ragusa though. I’ve thought strongly about backing these two because Capstone Games seems to be producing very good games in my eyes.


#1775

Well, outside of completely avoiding miniatures-based wargames, I don’t skip games purely for having minis. Which is why I pledged all-in for Street Masters and have a handful of other mini-intensive games that I quite like or at least see real potential in. And a few others on the way. But it’s definitely a big disincentive. And in no small part because as you say, a lot of minis-oriented games are bad, or at least extremely underwhelming compared to the price being charged if you don’t find inherent value in the minis themselves.


#1776

Highly agree. In essence, minis means higher retail price than I’m willing to pay, which is enough for me to turn it down. I have over a hundred board games in my room right now that can make me and my group happy. So, there’s little incentive to me to back an expensive game for… what? Even A Feast for Odin was an overindulgent buy for me.

If a game with loads of minis would have my backing, then it should be something excellent and worth the bucks I paid in - I’m considering about getting Gloomhaven in the far future on this one.


#1777

Oh hey, I took that as a given. I mostly don’t buy games because I mostly don’t buy games. It’s not like I’m thinking “oh, I would buy that if it didn’t have miniatures in it”. I’m not even investigating the Kickstarter mini-heavy games in the first place.

Kickstarters to date: Dungeon Lords (Chvatil, known value), Gloomhaven 2nd ed (Childres, known value), Pax Pamir (Wehrle, first impulse purchase(?) perhaps triggered by Root hype)


#1778

Just FYI, Gloomhaven has virtually no minis compared to the scope of content it offers - and actually offered a literal no-minis option in the original Kickstarter (ditched thereafter because it was logistically challenging to support two separate SKUs for something that only a minority of people wanted), which I selected. So for an example of an excellent high mini-count game you’d need to look elsewhere. :slight_smile:

Heck, I can’t even really cite it as an example of how much value you can stuff into a box without all those damn minis, because even at the current MSRP it’s a ridiculous value that probably wouldn’t have made it past the design stage with a traditional publisher and it’s hard to imagine Isaac making much money on it. So it’s not the sort of thing that one could reasonably expect the rest of the industry to emulate.


#1779

I do kinda avoid games specifically because of miniatures, not just because of general suspicion of minis-heavy advertising.

I don’t paint, and I like the game to look nice. With some exceptions, this puts games with minis at a substantial disadvantage. A lot of minis just don’t look very nice as lumps of light grey plastic mixed in with colorful cardboard components. There are situations where it works well aesthetically, but I tend to prefer printed cardboard tokens/standees, abstract wooden tokens, wooden or plastic tokens with stickers, etc.

Further, I have a lot of games for the amount of space I have, so I consolidate games into my own storage system. Every miniature-based game has to earn a higher proportion of it’s physical keep–I don’t think about it even remotely precisely, but that’s the prevailing spirit of the approach.

This game is going to take up more space in my collection, and either be more expensive or have less stuff than an otherwise comparably sized box without miniatures. And it’s not going to look as alive and colorful unless the aesthetic of the rest of the game really sells the unpainted miniatures to me (sometimes colored plastic helps here, sometimes it doesn’t).


#1780

I backed QE, because I like auction games and also unlimited money sounds thematic and hilarious. I’ll gladly gamble on this one!


#1781

You’re forgetting the metaphors contained within Gloomhaven. Who are the good guys? Miniatures. Who are the bad guys? Cardboard standees. Gloomhaven itself represents the irrepressible rise of miniatures in the industry - the 3D future destroying the 2D past. No mercy, no salvation. It’s a watershed moment. The standees in the first campaign may have appeased the old fashioned stalwarts initially, but the second campaign caved to the inevitable truth: the past model can be no longer sustained in today’s climate.

Really makes you think, eh?


#1782

This looks really good, but $30 shipping to Asia means it comes out at $64. That’s a lot for a small box game.


#1783

I’m on the fence as well but I’m leaning towards backing it. I’m happier to spend a little bit more to back a true indie game that needs the kickstarter money instead of a well-known publisher “preorder”.


#1784

I have the original wood-based version if you want to borrow it for a test game?


#1785

#1786

I miss Clarke and Dawe :cry: hard to believe John Clarke died over a year ago already.


#1787

Paladin sleeves are back for Season 3.

These are great sleeves, at a great price. I backed at the $80 level, which is 50 packs, 55 sleeves to the pack. May go for more, as I look through the games I’m planning to buy.

The only drawback is the time to fulfillment, September of 2019. But the price…

(I do wish they had something between 50 packs and 100, though.)


#1788

Awaken Realms just launched Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon; seems to be a mix of 7th Continent, with elements of Gloomhaven. The theme and art are GORGEOUS!!! If AR can do one thing, it’s creat a theme that appeals to me to an almost disturbing degree (Nemesis, The Edge, and Lords of Hellas are all right up my alley).

I’m not totally sold on Grail, as the combat looks a little puzzley for my tastes (and from some play through, downtime can be pretty severe if you’re not fighting a monster at the same time). I want to watch a few more videos, and see if it clicks or not (I love that theme so much!!!). That said, my KS budget is beyond blown, so my only option would be during the PM, and even that is unlikely given other things.


#1789

My issues with Tainted Grail are

  1. Representation. Armour bikinis shouldn’t be a thing.

  2. Two stage delivery. I’m not waiting another year for the whole game.

It does look fascinating, but, also, my kickstarter budget is beyond broken right now.


#1790

Haha 7th Continent + Gloomhaven?! Why don’t they chuck some Kingdom Death Monster in there too?

Ah, I kid. They seem to be doing well. Good for them!


#1791

@pattersonjeffa Thats fair. I don’t personally have an issue with it (as I said, I enjoy the theme), unless its a game I plan to play with my son, but I understand many do. If I was to back this, it would be a game for my GF and myself, and that aspect would be a non-issue. (I know her well, and her tastes).

Before anyone revolts, I mentioned this ongoing discussion about representation in games to my gf once, I think specifically regarding Conan, and she essentially rolled her eyes. Anyway, that’s another discussion/topic.

I’m not trying to say it’s not an important factor, just in my case, it depends on who I plan to play the game with.

Regarding delivery, at least they are trying to be more realistic. Given AR’s history, I think its a step forward.

@KIR I mentioned Gloomhaven more because of the card based combat. I don’t think it’s all that similar, but I’ve never played it. It seems to be much close to 7th Continent with a theme I much prefer (read; actually like).

Though now that you mention it, the idea that the heroes are these broken “left overs”, I think it might be more accurate to say it’s like 7th Continent done in the flavour of KDM…which actually makes it more of a sell for me, lol. I have no real desire to dive into KDM, but I do love a lot of aspects of that game. The theme being a big one.