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The Kickstarter thread


#2294

The review made me think of a megagame too. I feel what separates a megagame from a social deduction game is that there is so much going on, you can’t personally keep track of everything, so you play your role, both in terms of roleplaying and your role as one cog in the machine.

I’m already settling for trying to find a game at SHUX or other conventions.


#2295

This would’ve been my guess, but I’m notoriously Bad At Accents™

There’s also the possibility of the RP-ness being acquired the way mine is. I lived in Bristol for 18 years, but my mum’s family is from London (and she had elocution lessons at one point), so I have her accent with only a bit of Bristolian creeping in occasionally.


#2296

I’m really disappointed by their review of this game. SUSD was my entry into the hobby years ago and I’ve always felt that I could trust their reviews. They’ve really liked a lot of games that I know I won’t like, but they’ve always been super clear in the reviews about why they like it. I’ve backed a few KS projects, and thanks to advice from SUSD I’ve never been burned. I’ve only backed projects from established creators who have a record of delivering, and most of the projects have been 2nd edition or 2nd Kickstarter appearances.

But, as many others have pointed out, the SUSD hype of this projects is a complete 180 from everything they’ve warned about in the past. This is a first-time kickstart designer, there are a ton of red flags, and it seems like a very difficult-to-make game.

I’ve always appreciated SUSD for their measured reviews without hype. I just hope this isn’t indicative of things changing.


#2297

For what it’s worth the team seemed to believe this game hit that level of exceptionality that it deserved maybe an exceptional level of support?

There’s a lot going against the game (the price v components perception, it’s genre, biiig player count) so maybe they felt like to have this game properly exist in the world hand available to many they felt their support would really make it happen.


#2298

Found this on BGG:

That’s a great suggestion, and one we’ve heard from people a few times. An app is something we’re looking to pursue in the future, and we’re already collecting and collating ideas for it slowly in the background whilst we get the analog version ready for the Kickstarter, but if it happens it’ll be a fair way off.

At the outset, we’re focusing on the analog game. We don’t want technology to be a barrier to entry - all people should need to play are the grimoire and its contents. Or, to put it another way, we want Blood on the Clocktower to be apocalypse-ready - people should still be able to play it after The Lights Go Out.

I can wait for an app.


#2299

I definitely run the gamut with BotC:

  • Intrigued: hrmmmm this sounds interesting.
  • Enthused: When can I give you my money!
  • Disappointed: Wait it’s how much?
  • Acceptance: I have enough problem getting games that require 4-5 people together, there’s no way I can get a group large enough to play this. Also it’s $100 CAD and a KS so, while I’m glad it exists and maybe one day I’ll get to play it, it’s not for me.

#2300

Before the review it was below 800 backers. A couple of hours later it’s 1500 and rising.

Power of SUSD!


#2301

Yeah. It’s impressive. I worry that it’s setting up a lot of people to have unrealistic expectations (for a number of reasons)


#2302

Yeah, I can relate to the points made by @bruitist and you about SUSD setting up expectations too high/attracting people who don’t know what they are getting into.
On the other hand, with regards to component quality at least I think the higher exposure, leading to higher funding and eventually more money to use for production, will more likely be an advantage and lower the risks in that department.

It’s interesting to see Quinns getting the closest to being defensive I’ve ever noticed in the comments.


#2303

Yeah, I’m just really worried about this turning into one of those nightmare kickstarters that we hear about, trouble with production and massive years-long delays. I really hope everything turns out great, it’s on time, and the quality of the game is as promised. I’m just a little skeptical given how they fumbled the announcement (immediately had to, understanbly, defend the price of the game) and that they’re going to end up having to produce and ship a lot more copies of the game than they probably expected.

I’d really like to play a game, hopefully an organized night at a local board game store. Here’s hoping it all works out fine.


#2304

I WAS RIGHT!

Kylie is from Barnsley, which is halfway between Sheffield and Leeds! (She’s stated this on the Reddit thread, so I’m presuming it’s not privileged information. Will remove if so).


#2305

You have to consider what the pegs are actually supposed to do and what information is necessary. You wouldn’t be able to fit the necessary information on small pegs like that. At which point you also need to consider that the friction in setups like that is very low if you want to minimize wear. I played plenty of Mastermind as a kid and while you could certainly tilt the board without issue, I’m not sure they’re ideal for something that gets carried around as they could shake loose pretty easily which may be worse with larger pegged objects. I’m not sure.

I can definitely see how a peg setup might work, but I’m skeptical it’s an improvement.


#2306

I can’t imagine a game that requires 5 minimum to play and probably goes off better with substantially more would ever have the draw of a game you can potentially play by yourself but also with up to three friends, given similar expense, learning curve, etc.

But then, maybe I’m the only one that doesn’t have enough friends to regularly play a large group social deduction game, especially one with a learning curve. (Not that I have any desire whatsoever to do so, really.)


#2307

I think Two Rooms and a Boom managed about 4000 backers. Gloomhaven hit closer to 5000 on the first go, and 40,000 on the second.

In general, hit party games tend to sell wildly more than that (if not necessarily on Kickstarter), but this is not a typical party game. That said, it already has more backers than Resistance: Avalon.


#2308

Yeah, I think an inexpensive low commitment party game has the possibility to have way more legs than a big heavy expensive enthusiast game…it’s just that it seems like Blood on the Clocktower has a number of the barriers to entry that the latter does, while being the sort of game that typically aims at the audience of the former, which is a split I don’t imagine doing Gloomhaven numbers. I guess we’ll see.


#2309

After further consideration… I can say that my overall impression of SUSD’s review video of Blood on the Clocktower is that they are very excited about the game and, likely, got a bit too excited and that impacted their ability to present the review and their opinions on the subject with their usual restraint and clear editorial stance.

Ultimately, I think I lost a little respect for them today. But, I would like to note that they did not give it a SUSD Recommends badge, which I think they would have done so if they were reviewing it as a completed, retail product.


#2310

I’m frankly baffled that their “clear editorial stance” is apparently something that never budges (except for all of the times it has budged) and that therefore each time it budges, they are not merely to be disagreed with but less respected.

I think for a number of reasons, quite a few fans were turned against this game by the price point and I think that has poisoned the well here, not some kind of slip in editorial stance.

I’m not going to shell out $95 for a novel component process from an untested publisher, either, but I don’t see why that particularly ought to be held against SU&SD. They have consistently recommended games that are not accessible, that are difficult to get to the table, that have problematic themes, that are not (yet if ever) at market for substantial portions of their audience, that are very expensive, that don’t look very nice, and on and on.

While Quinns has made numerous statements about Kickstarter games and why, in general, SU&SD tends not to cover or recommend them without reservation … I don’t think it has ever been presented as a golden rule that should never be broken nor would it make much sense for that to be the case.


#2311

In no way do I expect them to be stagnant. But, certainly, as professional journalists, their editorial stance is SUSD.

I am a fan of SUSD for a number of reasons, but among the most important to me is that they put an emphasis on keeping journalistic integrity a top priority and that they are consistently aware of and take care to maintain a realistic editorial perspective that is easy for a wide audience to identify with (including myself).

I don’t mean to say they are wrong or mistaken based on the content of their review but that my ability to rely on their perspective is diminished. So, in my eyes, the SUSD brand has been devalued as a result.


#2312

Did the review mislead you in some way? Did the review convey a dishonestly held opinion with ulterior motive? What’s the “journalistic” failing in this board game review?


#2313

See above in my multi-bullet point post.

Also, like I said, I think they got overly excited and glossed over some points that really should have been covered (which some people in other places around the Internet have pointed out and, in some cases, Quinns has already acknowledged)

Edit: for example (really the primary example, the other examples are less significant)

Edit 2: I don’t think they have failed. But perhaps they’ve diluted their brand… But that would depend on what they think their brand is to begin with. Perhaps this review aligns 100% with the editorial stance they want to have… But that means, because I think they only told part of the story, I relate to their brand less and, as a result, their value as journalists is decreased to me.