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The Kickstarter thread


Due to recent developments, I can finally feel comfortable keeping my pledge for Age of Steam: Deluxe Edition now that Martin Wallace and Eagle Gryphon Games have come to a mutual understanding:

I’m currently pledged at the Engineer level (basically the AoS:DE without the train meeples). I’m waffling on whether I should pick up the add-on maps. I think I like the game but it’s hard to know for certain if I’ll like it enough to play all the maps enough to warrant them (likely not unless one or more of my children end up really liking it as well… and that’s a decade down the road at least). On the other hand, if I were to want to sell off my AoS:DE at a later date to recoup my investment, I think having those extra maps lends towards the “oooh, look at this big, juicy Deluxe-and-more bundle” that would tempt potential buyers.

I think, for the moment at least, I’ll stick with the basic pledge and no add-ons.


I’m in! I was in on Paladins from the first hours. Looks like an awesome game.


I can’t believe Root is going to break $1M by the end of today!


I’m surprised there aren’t more all in pledges. Root always seemed like one of those games that was in short supply, so thought a second campaign with shoot up with new comers. But I guess the price of all in is off-putting.


Is Root in short supply? There appear to be 6 US online retailers selling the base game for $42-47, and the KS has the base game as a $60 add-on.


It was for a while, but clearly not any more. I’ve not seen it in the UK stores much, but looking online it does appear to be back. Should have researched before posting that!


This. In general I find it rather troublesome when Kickstarters sell add-ons (usually the base games and previous expansions; looking at you, Millennium Blades) at MSRP. In this instance, those SKUs are even still available from OGSs and likely many LGSs (not mine, but certainly some) for less than MSRP. I can’t tell if they’re just trying to capitalize on the strange behavior people have when it comes to completionism and Kickstarter projects or what… but it really irks me.

C’mon, publishers… if you’re running a Kickstarter, you should be offering a reasonable retail price for your add-ons (and all of your products, actually!)


Well, it’s unclear what printing the online retailers are selling. I think there were some changes made with the 3rd printing? And this KS will be the 4th printing. Though I do note that $42-47 retail plus the $5 Root Upgrade Pack is still less than the $60 the KS is charging for a 4th printing base game.


More certainly it’s 2nd printing. Which is fine. I have a second printing and there’s nothing “unplayable” about it. And the $5 update kit is even optional as there are multiple ways of manually updating a 1st/2nd printing with some sticker-paper or just some permanent markers.

I can, however, understand the desire to have the “update to date” stuff. I think if the KS offered to deliver the Base + Exp1 before the Exp2 delivery date, you’d see more of those “all in” pledges. It really doesn’t make a lot of sense to buy something at full MSRP and wait until late this year to get it, especially when you can go buy it off a shelf today.


I guess the price of all in is off-putting.

That was the case for me. I was hoping I could get just the base game for somewhere in the 40-50 range, as it is appearing on some websites. It appears that was unrealistic. So I am gonna continue waiting…I don’t need it THAT badly.


For 50 quid tho. :frowning: No thanks. I can wait for my own copy.


Well, if I buy in, and that’s looking unlikely, $60 for base is cheaper than I’ll find it elsewhere, just because $25 shipping covers everything so the base shipping is effectively “free”. That assumes I want the 2nd expansion in the first place though.

Must be nice to live in places where games are available below MSRP!


Everything up to now fits in the base box with the cardboard insert left in. It’s not the kind of insert that really does much in the way of organizational work. I don’t see any reason it couldn’t be taken out–sometimes the box is too narrow at the base to comfortable fit the boards down at the bottom, but the only thing that doesn’t work in this box is the manual. Doesn’t add much space, so I left it in, but it really doesn’t add to the experience. :stuck_out_tongue:

Also you can always store it in something else entirely. :smiley: In general I don’t see much use in waiting for an all-encompassing edition in case of future expansions. Something like Fresco you can reasonably play with everything at once, but even that has dud expansions not worth using at all and it’s not worth the large box and complicated insert when it all compresses down very nicely. The Galaxy Trucker big box is like two base boxes stuck together which seems like it would be very annoying to store or carry compared to two separate boxes of the same volume.

I wouldn’t count of Leder Games to do an all-in-one type thing. I haven’t seen any sign it’s their Thing, in any case.


Personally, I’ve thought about it but the friend I game with already owns it and could just bring it by if we want to play it. And I feel like I’ve done right by Patrick (who is in our mutual circle of friends) by backing two Vast Kickstarters and the little Halloween themed card game Trick or Treat that was his first Kickstarter.

I mean, they set MSRP, so presumably that’s the price they’d like the game to be sold at. It’s certainly a bit of a tax for people who don’t do comparison shopping, though. I admit I tend to go all in via KS rather than shop around, as a convenience/promo-nabbing thing. Probably not my best move but :man_shrugging:


MSRP is the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price. Kickstarter is not a store! :wink:. But more seriously, this isn’t retail we’re talking about. This would be like going to a factory outlet store and paying full price (Yes, I know people do that… but… look, we could get sidetracked by dumb people doing dumb things for a long time).

Kickstarter means no retail distribution model. And yes, it does mean the publisher will have the extra task of fulfilling the pledges themselves (or hiring a fulfillment partner to do so), but we’re still on the Publisher-friendly side of the coin here if they’re selling it for full MSRP.


I’m not entirely counting on it, but the game’s been a massive hit and people are calling for it. If their responses to those calls were “nope, sorry” it’d be another thing, but their public response has been that they won’t consider it until Root is “done”. That’s enough of a maybe for me. Fair points on removing the insert, I’m being picky on account of it being a beautiful game.

Anyway, final point - priorities. I’m backing a heavy (physically heavy) game from Australia that closes on the same day, so there are budgetary constraints here too. I will not have issues getting the expansion at retail, so the final choice was made.

I haven’t backed a Leder game yet. All retail.


Yeah, sure, they could charge less than the price they’ve established for the game, but why would they? They picked that price for a reason, and they have the power to charge that price. It’s pretty much the same as buying the game from the company’s own website, and in my experience those pretty well always charge MSRP (outside of FFG’s holiday clearance sale where they get rid of poor performers and discontinued lines) and probably have worse shipping costs than wherever I’d get it at retail.


Publishers undercutting retail may not seem like a big deal, but it is to the retailers. I know my FLGS refuses to stock Osprey games because they release VAT free through their own channels as they’re a “book” company. I can see why publishers wouldn’t want to undercut retail in their campaigns.


Yes, they did. And that price point was likely decided based on the added overhead of distributors and retail profit margins. Publishers usually sell to distributors for less than 50% of the MSRP; meaning they are capable of making a profit if they sold the game at MSRP/2. With Kickstarter, there are some different overhead considerations (and it would be foolish to ignore them as they are substantial), but if Kickstarter is a way of actually crowdfunding a game, they should be rewarding those who give them money months or years in advance of receiving a good (if at all which is a possibility when pledging for a Kickstarted project).

All I’m saying is… if a game is profitable for the publisher at half of the MSRP price and they are truly using Kickstarter for its intended purpose, they should be offering competitive rates at least comparable to those of OGS as a way of recognizing the additional risks and offsetting the cost of the zero interest loan that they are receiving from their backers. That is, of course, my opinion and also the reason for my decision to not back several projects. I’m not mad at publishers that charge MSRP for their products on Kickstarter… but if any of them ever wondered why I or people like me aren’t backing their projects, this is it.

I agree. Publishers selling direct from their stores and undercutting their Brick & Mortar retailers is something that would bother me greatly. I’m speaking more of Kickstarter-as-a-preorder-service type of situations. So in the case of Root, that certainly does speak to sticking to MSRP. But that argument, for me at least, breaks down when you realize you’re paying MSRP for a game, more than it would cost you at a LGS or OGS, and you are waiting 9+ months to receive it. In this situation, I suppose the “fools and their money are easily parted” is the prevailing explanation.


There’s usually some sort of incentive. I personally think “getting a discount off MSRP” is a really poor incentive, because I’ve almost never seen a Kickstarter charge less than a competitive online retailer (quite possibly to avoid undercutting retail and thus not being stocked - already an issue for Kickstarters since so much of the demand is satisfied by the project) and they quite often charge the actual shipping costs, which on bulky, often heavy stuff like a big pile of boardgame content, are freaking awful, whereas if I buy on Amazon, I get it Prime, and if I go CSI, they’ll ship it free if I buy enough.

There are Kickstarter exclusives, of course, which I dislike because they screw over the retail customer. But really my favorite take is the one you see with things like Sword & Sorcery or Tainted Grail - you’re paying much the same as MSRP for the base game, but then they add on a whole whack of free content that gets separately released at retail. As a completist, I’m always gonna want that stuff, so getting it bundled in is more than sufficient reason for me to back.