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The Kickstarter thread


I think it’s entirely reasonable to have standards about how Kickstarter creators should go into projects and what sort of management those projects should see, etc. What I don’t think is reasonable is to look at Kickstarter and actually expect projects to, in practice, regularly hit estimated dates. Because that is just not the track record that has been established.

I’ve backed a couple hundred projects at this point and I think somewhere between 3 and 10 of them ever hit their estimates or were early. I’ve had more projects that have either officially given up or have been radio silent for years and thus are almost certainly dead, and that number isn’t even close to being a high enough percentage to dissuade me from the platform. (Though, nearly all of them were videogame projects and I’ve stopped backing those for the most part.)

So yeah. They should make reasonable estimates and plan in ways that ensure they fulfill them. But expecting that to actually happen is very likely to bring disappointment.

More Tangent

I suppose I take a different emphasis.

The average Kickstarter backer has not backed hundreds of projects. And if you can learn what is typical, so can creators. The platform is built around hyping customers for a dream and the burden of advertising is to use that manipulation responsibly. Suggesting people consume safely is fine, too, but we can do better than that. Delays are inevitable, misleading advertising is not.

What I typically see is some loose boilerplate about how delays of undetermined length can happen but we’re confident about our product and so forth. Especially when it is very common to be months or years late on a project, that has to be baked into expectations and advertising. Creators need to do their homework. This isn’t a pie-in-the-sky “should.” This is a basic ethical business “should.”

Look, I get that project creators are people. They’re allowed to make mistakes. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for those mistakes or that the people whose money they accept are unreasonable for taking creators at their word.


Sure, I agree. And yet, acting as though those ideals will be carried out in reality on any sort of reliable basis is not reasonable based on the evidence to date.


I don’t quite get what your caveat is on about. I’m not expecting anything I type here to magically alter the fate of Kickstarter, if that’s your concern. :stuck_out_tongue:

This is stuff that can be spoken about or otherwise acted on. It is not unreasonable to speak about or act on these things, nor does doing so require acting as though these things will change without dialog and action.


“Previous projects by this creator have been on average 742 days late.”


Has anyone here had any experience with Gloom of Kilforth? I’ve heard varied things about it, from “its fine” to “its great”.

The new stand alone expansion, Shadows of Kilforth hit KS today, and I must say I’m intrigued. Card based adventure games always sound appealing, the the game is (as expected if you’ve ever seen Gloom) absolutely stunning!!!

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the base game (or any game by tristan Hall).


Dang. That is a large number of days.


New Feudum KS just launched. Anyone around can speak to that one? Finding individual opinions of this one has proven tricky.


Got a few games coming soon that ive been hyped about after backing them last year.

Batman Gotham City Chronicles, Hellboy and Joan of Arc Time of Legends are all coming (hopefully) within the next few months) and I’m mainly just excited to add a bunch of cool miniatures to my collection.

Also very excited about the Bargain Quest expansion!


Joan of Ark looks like a ton of fun. I.m interested to see what they do next with Time of Legends. I do wish Mythic was a bit less into the historical settings (for my tastes); I would LOVE for a game like that, that was a full on heaven vs Hell war! I know in JoA there are a lot of demonic units, but they seem to out number the “Heavenly Host” pretty heavily.

Looking forward to what the verdict on Batman ends up being. I know Conan was fairly widely regarded (even the guys thought it was a ton of fun, despite their issues with certain aspects), and I feel like they may have fixed a lot of the issues. I passed on the original KS for a few reasons, but I think I will jump on the reprint. I especially love that it has a VS mode, since it’s basically a 1vAll skirmish game anyways.


I am saying that when something happens 95% of the time, even when the other 5% of the time is the ideal outcome, it is sensible to expect the thing that happens 95% of the time and act accordingly. People who are going to be massively inconvenienced or enraged by a delayed Kickstarter probably shouldn’t be backing Kickstarters. Not because it wouldn’t be nice if creators did better, but because so far they haven’t.

Promoting our latest Kickstarter: Consumer Protection Lawsuit

At least in Washington, long overdue projects are a matter that has come before a court on the side of backers (this doens’t necessarily require personal suit, either; Washington backers petitioned the Attorney General on consumer protection grounds).

I think downplaying criticisms of this sort of thing with a shrug and some guesstimated statistics increases frustration–it presents backers who complain within reason as at best naive and at worst entitled. I think it’s good to separate entitled criticism about projects not being bespoke perfection for each individual backer from frustration at having your money taken on false or incompetent promise.

I just don’t think that attitude is helpful. I’m not at a loss for what your words literally mean. I’m unsure why they’re important to you and whether or not your intent is to downplay criticism. Why is it important to stress how obvious the problem is to those in-the-know?

As mentioned courts have already found Kickstarter to be more of a store than anything else in practice without needing new legislation to delineate that. Better enforcement is probably in order, but the tools are there. I think we can also, as a community, encourage non-abusive complaint and even formal complaint and encourage a consumer protection mindset in an ecosystem that is from the ground up about quickly and efficiently taking money from people who lack the advantages or rights of typical investors. That’s why it’s important to me to stress that complaint is justified and that there are options available.


Not sure if there are any Fall of Magic fans about, but Heart of the Deernicorn is putting out a little addendum:


It’s fine. Fiddly but playable. To me it was like an improved version of Talisman - similar “build up you character feel” but no stupid random monopoly like board.


Dammit man, I didn’t need any incentive. It’s a good one, sometimes you just know. Been hovering over the pledge button for a week! Any insights? I’m already backing an RPG project (an OSR book).

To clarify I’d be getting in on the ground floor (read: pricey!). Detailed impressions aren’t easy to come by.


Thanks for sharing this!

I backed it and their previous game. My wife and I love puzzle games and have bought all the Unlock and a few Exit games as well. This looks fun!


I think it’s a lovely thing, but it’s a bit strange. If you don’t have a group you think you can play slow and moody storytelling games with, I’d consider getting the digital version instead of the fancy scroll version. You can still print things out, or you can also play over the internet or on Roll20.

More so than a lot of role playing games, Fall of Magic is very much what you bring into it. How much you enjoy it will depend almost entirely on how comfortable you are with improv–not necessarily improv acting, but the game doesn’t put a GM or an intricate system or even competition from fellow players in place to take pressure off you and help expedite interesting decisions or simplify interesting storytelling.

Depending on what you get out of role playing games and who you play it with, that either makes it the most or least accessible kind of role playing game! :smiley: It’s just reacting to a gorgeous object and using it to have a long, entertaining conversation about made up people. It doesn’t get much simpler than that, and as mentioned that’s a double-edged thing. There’s no really support mechanism and it’s well possible you’d have almost as much fun without the map if you’re into that kind of thing.

Caveats employed, I’m quite happy with the scroll itself and while it doesn’t hit Microscope levels of magic for me, I really like it. While I’m at it, that’s actually a good shout–if you have any doubts or concerns about getting Fall of Magic to the table, take a look at Microscope. It’s an excellent, contemplative and exploratory experience but not as expensive and much more flexible as it’s not tied to one specific map. There are also a couple of map drawing games–including The Quiet Year that was reviewed on the site–that get at some similar themes or experiences.


Thank you very much for the thoughtful reply. That was exactly the kind of information I needed. First of all, Microscope and The Quiet Year instantly got bookmarked for further perusal, both are right up my alley.

Long Wind

But there’s the rub… so much is up my alley, and I’m surrounded by, for all intents and purposes, non-gamer friends. Perhaps worse, I have friends that will game, but only up to a point… and it’s right at that point where, for me, things start to get juicy.

Thing is, I’m okay reaching out and playing this kind of thing with strangers - I’ve been branching out with various local Meetups for a couple of months now, but have yet to find anyone that’s gone beyond the board, so to speak. Then of course, and you alluded to this, there’s the challenge of finding the right group for you (and vice versa). We played 2/2.5ed. for years until the big college breakup and pulled a few stragglers in from either side of “the spectrum” from time to time. Never lasted.

Point was, nope, don’t play these games but sure wanna!

As for digital copies, I’ve already got a few. I take a lot of pleasure from just reading these things and kind of letting my mind run wild from time to time. However, I find roleplaying needs an anchor. Something tangible. Not least of all because I can’t stand reading at any great length on a screen, but having something physical, some thing of sorts to facilitate the whole thing - even if there is no facilitator. Does that make sense? I find it hard to argue the merits of useless excess under most circumstances, but even something as simple as a map is usually enough. This one just happens to be a hell of a map, especially if I want to go all in.

[EDIT] Completely forgot to mention, but that’s part of the unknown with games of this type, as I haven’t experienced GM-less roleplaying before, outside of card-driven experiences, etc.


Not sure if this is the right place to float something like this out there, but I’m actually beginning the prep stages for a campaign of my own. I’ve never run a campaign before (and am still in pre-production on my game) and was wondering if anyone here has experience running a successful one, ideally specifically for a board game.

I’d love to pick your brain in regards to costs, marketing and any other useful tips you may have.

If anyone would be willing to chat with me, feel free to shoot me a message!


That sounds like a pass, given the price point.