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SUSD reviews you don't agree with


Hm, I think the correct way to discern whether a game “lived up to the hype” shouldn’t be how you personally liked it (because hype is usually correlated with a lot of people talking/being excited about a (furure) thing), but how it is received once it is finally a reality and subject to closer scrutiny.
I.e. if something is “over”-hyped, it should become clear once people start to give their opinons on it.
In the case of Scythe, those opinions are predominantly good. Which, if we really wanted to talk about whether the hype was justified (and psychological effects and self-fulfilling prophecies aside), should point to the answer, yes, the hype was justified - in regards to what hype is about.
Which doesn’t say anything about how you personally will like the game.
Because that has nothing to do with hype. Or at least it should.


This was a review–OF COURSE the opinion of the person doing the review matters…it’s the ONLY thing that matters.

And if the hype is “OMG–BEST GAME EVER!!!” and you review the game and think “It’s good but not great”–then your opinion is that the game didn’t live up to the hype.


Please point me to where this alleged hype was happening. I’ve followed Scythe quite extensively, and didn’t really encounter what you are describing.


What I did witness was excitement, and anticipation, and people expecting it to be a great game. That’s quite different to what you said, and that’s basically what “hype”, at least in the board game industry, boils down to.
In fact, one of the biggest problems I had with the coverage of Scythe was the opaque-to-arbitrary use of the word “hype”.

An example of a game that did not live up to the hype is Seafall, by the way.



I’m not particularly interested in splitting hairs about whether the hype surrounding Scythe was “it’s going to be the best game” versus “everyone’s excited and anticipating a great game”.

There was hype surrounding Scythe. Part of Paul’s review is examining the reasons for that hype…and then his review discusses whether or not the game lives up to the hype.

Are you arguing that?


If you’re not interested in semantics, this might be the wrong forum for you.
What I pointed out was the IMO accurate meaning of the phrase “living up to the hype”. I think I’ve stated that quite clearly - whether or not you agree.


You’re suggesting that I leave these forums because I don’t agree with your personal definition of living up to the hype?



If you’re not interested in a game, doesn’t all excitement appear to be hype?
Scythe made $1.6million on Kickstarter. That’s a hell of a lot of excitement for a game that isn’t centred around dozens of minis.


(PS I would say it was hyped)

BYE, I best be off now.


I stated it exactly as I meant it. Please don’t take this discussion personal, there’s no reason for that.


Ha! :smiley:
That’s the problem with the word, though, it’s so fuzzy it doesn’t really mean anything.


Tom Vasel: “There’s no question, if you picked the game that has gotten the most hype in the last 365 days, it has definitely been Scythe. This game has been - as soon as it was announced, people have went crazy. The kick-starter has went crazy. People have been like dying for it to come out. And I don’t say that to be malicious at all, because it kind of deserves the hype…”

I could go on quoting intros to YouTube reviews, but it’s fair to say a vast majority have mentioned the hype in the first few sentences.


You can’t argue with a former pastor. :slight_smile:
And he actually explained his usage.
He didn’t go into details (artwork, theme, publisher’s reputation), but I feel he gave a better summary than Paul did.


You keep mentioning concerns regarding the KS model, I was just curious as to why specifically you were singling out KS (obviously if those concerns also apply to the traditional publishing model that’s not the case).

As I said though, Stonemaier stated when Scythe was announced it would hit retail, so even if the KS failed it would presumably still have been made. Similarly large publishers cancelling pre-orders isn’t unheard of, though it’s admittedly less frequent than a KS failing to fund.

I don’t think that’s really true these days (in fact I’m pretty sure they partnered up with someone else not so long back). For the past couple of years I think they’re mainly using Kickstarter as a ‘throw some mud and see what sticks’ method of working out what to bother taking to retail.

Only a couple of the cards and the combat dials weren’t in the retail edition, so there’s not many “KS exclusives” in there (in fact the only real significant addition was the solo mode). I can’t really see those single card additions as being responsible for a whole lot of pledges,

Yeah, but the question then is how many of those would be Vasel saying the same thing about completely different games? :stuck_out_tongue:


The Kickstarter model(s) consists of a subset of features. While some of them are shared by more traditional publishing models, not all of them are and some of them have different implications. Take, again, the pre-ordering situation. A pre-order of the latest Netrunner data pack caries different connotations than a Kickstarter pledge.

As I thought I had already expressed, it’s not as straight forward as all pre-sale conditions being equivalent, but insofar as they share similarities they share some of my concerns. I’m focusing on Kickstarter because that’s where the discussing was (and is) but if you’d prefer to talk about traditional publishing models we can do that.


Off the top of my head… that apartment also hosts the Escape: The Curse of the Temple review as well as the Quarantine review.
If memory serves me right …


I think one piece of the puzzle being missed with regards to KS:
When I back on KS, the creator gets 85% of my money.
When I buy at RRP from retail, the creator gets 30-40% of my money.

Yes, in the former case the creator is then responsible for getting the game to me but still.

Of course KSers have extra content or are significantly cheaper, because the creator is making twice as much per copy.

And that’s also why I feel it’s good for the industry. That more than half of the money I spend on a board game goes towards getting the game to me, rather than the game itself, is ridiculous.


But the production costs come out of that 85%. As far as I’ve seen, actual profit margins via KS are about the same as via retail; but it’s an effective way of (a) preordering (yes, I know, but that’s how lots of companies are using it) and thereby getting the production costs paid up front, and (b) judging demand.


The production costs also come out of the that 30-40% in games sold to distribution though. It’s just those costs are funded through capital raised from previous sales or a business loan.

KS charge 10%, payment fees are another 5%, so the creator gets 85%.

Games sold into distribution are sold at a 30-40% of the retail price.

There’s no planet on which those profit margins are “about the same”. One is two times the other.


Flamme Rouge. I was excited when it came out, but it didn’t deliver. And I’m a keen bicyclistman. Felt very empty. I much prefer Raptor, which uses a similar mechanic, but with much more depth.