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Retracted... Off topic. Thanks @scribbs

More reading related to that…


Though this source may be sensationalized…


Well, at least scallops aren’t bananas.

(I’m so sorry, I really am trying to be serious but it’s very difficult).


Alternative source for Scallop Wars.


Also here’s the most interesting Wikipedia page ever


Yeh, there was a similar thing back when we had the referendum on changing the voting system (away from FPTP). One side focused on laying out the facts and giving a clear overview of the pros/cons, and the other side went all “changing the way we vote would lead to the apocalypse and we’d be run by Hitler 2.0!!!”


The AV ref was partly because no major party wanted to back it. The mainstream politics was saying this would throw us into the wild west. Anyone arguing for AV wasn’t getting a platform and was seen as fringe (with a hint of “they’re just bitter because they never win”). AV was THE best thing for all voters, but there wasn’t anyone to give it a voice.

It’s always easier to defend the status quo in referendums. Which is why Brexit is all the more infuriating!!! Why did everyone choose that year to throw a cog in the machine, and not the couple of years before when it really mattered!!


I was thinking about this today, I remember a broadcast explaining how the sixth places first choice candidate could end up winning in second preference voting and how absurd that would be! As if it was a common occurrence.


I would have called the Lib Dem’s a major party, but I get your point. We’d certainly have a lot more UKIP mps under the system.


Lib Dems are the very definition of “bitter because they never win”. The coilition didn’t help that view.


The coalition was political suicide for the Lib Dem’s.


(As a brief aside, the scallop wars is less to do with Brexit and more about how to manage historic fishing rights in territorial waters. The British vessels have a right to fish the French waters (as French vessels do in British waters), but do not have to abide by local fishery management plans. It has nothing to do with the EU, it is because France and England are geographical pretty darn close to one another.)


I think any decision they made at that point would have been political suicide. If they didn’t form a coilition they would have been labelled babies who spat out their dummies and refused to sit at the table when given the opportunity.

It’s a shame, Clegg was one of the most eloquent politicians we’ve had in years. A politician who can handle debates and interviews is a rare thing! Under Labour or Conservatives he would have been a winning ticket, especially in the political atmosphere following Obama’s election. Let’s face it, at that time, a charismatic orator held a lot of weight.


Yeah, but that label would have carried less weight and done less lasting damage with their supporters.


Thanks for the information, I modified my previous post accordingly. :slight_smile:


I really like the Remainiacs podcast. It’s name gives you a clue about which way it’s opinion lies (and mine). I find it reassuring to hear other people be as upset about all the details as I am. I also like that they go in to facts and figures on the details. Interestingly I find myself politically removed from almost everyone on it apart from hoping to stay in the EU.

That got a bit confessional, but the point stands, is that is a podcast with details about the EU and how difficult it may be to leave.


Funnily, the “No” vote on the Scottish independence was very similar to the Remain campaign that it was still a shock (at least to the people I talked to) that the “Yes” vote manage to nearly win the referendum, even if they lost in the end - as we are expecting the nationalists to be beaten significantly.


Out of interest, was your view on the Scottish Indi Ref taken in Scotland or south of the border? I moved to Scotland a few months before the referendum, and it was amazing how differently the whole thing was protrayed souh/north of the border.


We are Londoners, so i’m sure we are out-of-touch with what’s happening above the border.

The only good thing, in my view, on Brexit is that, at least, the UK won’t be a major obstacle to European federalism. I still think that the UK would be in a better geopolitical position with a unified EU, even if the UK-EU relationship would be one-sided, like Canada-US.

A divided Europe would be easy pickings to the larger powers of this century.


Meanwhile in the Antipodes, we cannot keep a Prime Minister for longer than 3 months, apparently because since we threw out the last progressive thinking energy policy we had (which was BAD and going to cause energy prices to go up), energy prices have done nothing but go up.

The solution for our long term energy security and sustainability (apart from swapping PMs of course) is apparently to pander to a combination of religious nutters and big coal.

Cos global warming never hurt anyone, and certainly not profits.


The where? That’s an island right? In the… hmm…

Australia. Got it.
Well we over the ditch are having a laugh at you. And will continue to do so, right up until the economy crashes because business confidence is down. Everything else is fine, just businesses aren’t feeling 100%.
I assume businesses are scared of babies. There’s no other explanation.

Anyway, I’ll do my best to bring this back on topic.
I’ll preface this by saying I’ve never been to Europe or any part of England. I’m from New Zealand, so we’re a bit detached from the whole thing. In saying that, I kinda get why people are keen to leave. Bureaucracy is inherently silly and opaque at the best of times and with so many cultures trying to hash out something they all agree on, I can understand why the laws that come out seem a tad… odd. Or just silly.

In saying that, the current response looks a little like throwing the baby out with the bath water, and is more evidence for my casual theory titled; “Most things are better if you compromise”.