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Blood on the Clocktower PBF #4

:ghost: Unless @Zyleth rules that the Shabaloth can target the same person twice then I’m now convinced that @kzz is evil. :ghost:

K bust covering all bases since we’re going deep into the rules: given the existence of the atheist, is the storyteller a valid target ?

Otherwise I have no idea why I ticked on pillbox.

I really don’t see how pillbox can be the godfather. That would mean shabaloth regurgitated him. But a shabaloth with no kill on night one makes no sense.

whisper to bradburn

Thanks for the whisper, @kzz! I rest assured that the rest of the town will see it for the attempt to cast suspicion on me that it is.

I got played. Defense incoming.

If we have a zombul that’s alive we need to kill them twice. If Bradburn is evil (then well played) and we vote for Kzz we are going to be spending the next two turns killing the wrong person. Or we kill skeletor today and they are the minion they have to be killed today and tomorrow too.

Skeletor today may be the day to say who you are. This is getting crazy.

:ghost: skeletor claimed Courtier. :ghost:

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I wanted to check whether or not I was a lunatic.

I got the info that I was a pukka and bradburn was my minion.

I targeted @assussanni on night one, probably ticking @pillbox.

I was shown tinker was missing so I thought it might be good to bluff myself as an outsider. I was shown no lunatic and a goon would probably stay in hiding. I tried to contact my minion, @Bradburn who told me he was my assassin.

@Assussanni didn’t die that night but there are so many protection effects I wasn’t really worried, all I knew was that gossip got poisoned and I could probably use that. That night I poisoned @RossM whom I thought would have a good chance of targetting someone good and them living which would be fun. Added bonus of killing @COMaestro.

During the day, brief exchange with @bradburn who told me he killed the gossip and to throw him under the bus. He’d claim lunatic, and put up a fight so it looks convincing. But @bradburn, why did you make it so good a fight if I’m really the pukka ? Especially since you’re selling them on the idea that I’m a zombuul, (why ?) and so they’d have to kill me twice, leaving any demon ample room for victory.

I still think lunatic is a weak claim. Which is why I thought @bradburn was playing along in the first place. And from my perspective, I’m either a demon who loses if killed or an outsider who loses if killed so I thought I’d just keep the stronger lie. I didn’t even ask myself whether it mattered that I was the lunatic. Now it does so. There you go, that’s my defense of why you should kill @bradburn over me.

Do we know who skeletor poisoned?

Kzz who do you think bradburn is and who is our minion? I assume you guess above changes now you are the lunatic.

I still can’t see pillbox being evil.

Spoilers

I hate this game.

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At this point the only thing I know is that you and pillbox are good as I can’t explain the resurrection any other way. The only way rossm is evil is if comaestro is also evil, so because bradburn is evil, rossm is good. Comaestro can’t be evil either because he’d need to be a zombuul, and there were too many deaths for that to be true (assuming there is a godfather). Same for assussanni. So bradburn or skeletor. One is the godfather the other is a demon that’s not the shabbalote. Unless the shabbaloth can target the storyteller.

How are there too many deaths to be a Zombuul? I count 0 during the first night, after we had executed someone, and then 3 on the second night, which can be explained by @RossM’s death also killing @COMaestro, and then @Assussanni’s ability killing them.

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There can be a zombuul. I know you’re trying to push zombuul very hard. I’m saying if there is a godfather (which can we agree there is ?) then it’s impossible for comaestro to kill both rossm and himself (assuming assussanni died to gossip).

Identically if assussani was the zombuul, they couldn’t kill both rossm (killing comaestro) and themselves. The only way that happens is if there’s an assassin. But that’s not the case.

:ghost:So our two possible demons. Are you both planning on eating each other’s minions tonight?:ghost:

:ghost: Oh, wow. Do we have two demons each claiming that the other is their minion and that they are really the lunatic? I am so confused. :ghost:

To quote @RossM

Once again I’m in the situation where someone is claiming the same thing as me. How can the same stuff happen to the same man twice? #DieHard2 (Kind of three times with the previous game?)

Ultimately this is going to come down to whether you all trust me or @kzz more. I don’t think there’s a definitive thing I can show that will prove which of us is telling the truth at this point.

Here is my proposed plan of action: I know that @kzz and probably @skeletor are the bad guys, I’m just not entirely sure which is which (although I suspect @kzz is the Godfather.) What we should do is execute one today and execute the other the following day. This stops the Zombuul from killing on either night. After that we can then decide who to execute for the second time after that.

How can we be sure which demon it is? Well, I know it’s the Zombuul but it’s not so clear for everyone else. We can be pretty sure that the Shabaloth is off the table with the 0 deaths during the first night, and with the three kills on the second night the Pukka would have had to planned things really well in advance to pull that off or be very lucky. I think that’s unlikely.

The 0 then 3 kill pattern does match up well with the Po, but here are my thoughts on that: if they’d done it right the Po could have had FIVE people die last night. How? If they killed two people (other than @COMaestro and @Assussanni) and also @RossM that would have been 3, plus 1 from @RossM’s death killing @COMaestro as their Grandmother and then 1 random death from @Assussanni’s ability. That’s what I would have done in that position.

Edit: Oh and if we kill @kzz tonight then @RossM’s ability will tell us if @skeletor is good or not.

I thought you would give us something that settled our differences. Instead you basically get us back to 50/50. Of course you’d advise killing skeletor and me. We both agree skeletor is evil. I propose you kill bradburn, then skeletor.

A pukka getting unlucky on night one isn’t the end of the world and targetting the guy who’s gonna kill someone in dying then possibly incriminate an innocent in dying poisoned isn’t rocket science. I know it because I did exactly that but the getting unlucky on night one.
And yeah that 5 kill po could work, but people have troubles with the very rules of the game so I don’t buy “the demon didn’t do take the most optimal line” as a definite proof. Cuz if we want to go this way, assuming the demon is a zombuul like you claimed, not killing who you say you targeted was a horrendous move, why would they have done that ? Especially since killing @COMaestro would still put him on suspicion for being a zombuul later on, instead of confirming two good players. Literally confirms 4 good players. If we assume the demon played optimally, you’re the liar.

Again with trying to push us towards the option that would waste the most time. The only question is are you trying to throw skeletor under the bus, or double bluffing for him ?

I will add this to my defense : this is now straight up mafia, so let’s examine behaviours.

I got shown demon, but had not seen the lunatic so I was aware of the possibility of being good. I’d make good kills at night but stand back and try to take a neutral approach that didn’t give a lot of misinformation just in case.

Bradburn on the other hand just went and wrecked everything. Doing in one nomination more damage than you could imagine. It forced people to reveal roles who didn’t want to reveal, and got a good player executed. That Po quintuple kill ? It could only have hypothetically happened because of what bradburn did.

These are the actions of someone who knows for sure they’re the bad guy.