I understand what you are getting at, but try looking at it from the perspective of utility/power of a single loss card. This particular summon, correctly placed, can tie up a monster for 2+ turns (usually longer), and leave the monster damaged and poisoned by the time the summon dies. That’s a great result for a single loss card. A card that is very powerful in certain situations, when used correctly, seems more interesting to me than something you just fire and forget at any time, knowing that even if it isn’t useful now, you can make it useful soon because of a house-rule.
I disagree that distracting a monster for a couple of turns is a good payoff for losing a card. If I’m losing a card, I want something dead. Preferably two things!
Really? Are we talking about the same class? At level 1?
Fearsome blade: Move 4 attack 2 xp 2 (no kill)
Scurry: loot 2, xp 1 (no kill)
Perverse edge: attack 3, +2 attack and xp 1 per negative condition on target (maybe 1 kill if properly prepped)
Empathetic Assault: Attack 4, range 5, disarm, cold, xp 2 (probably no kill)
Possession: ally perform attack 6, xp 2 (maybe 1 kill)
Frigid apparition: move 4, stun, xp 1 (no kill)
Maybe you are saying that ALL the mindthief’s loss cards are bad, and shouldn’t be used, but I strongly disagree. Gnawing horde is a great opening card for a new room, while the high damage level 1 mindthief cards include only 1 potential kill (for mid-low hps) and 1 finisher, both situational.
I think it is worth noting that everyone’s experience is different. It’s hard for me to say what it might be like playing a mindthief if you have a brute in your party, for example, because I have never experienced that. Likewise, if someone tries telling me that X is useless because Y, that might be totally inapplicable to my party (spellweaver, mindthief, scoundrel, FWIW - which is probably a party that benefits more than most from a frontline summon).
Finally retired my Scoundrel tonight! I’m so happy with the new class I unlocked (triple lightning); it’s the Inox Berserker and she’s just what we need because we haven’t had a class so far that’s mainly melee focused.
I have to admit I never thought about it that way.
But equally in all my time playing the Mindthief I never did lose any of those cards before the last room (when you may aswell) except for Perverse Edge and Possession when set up for a combo (the latter with the Scoundral and smoke bomb).
That all said, I mostly played the class as high stamina, lasting as long as possible while putting out consistent damage, so I’d generally try and avoid losing any cards until near the end.
Generally speaking a loss card won’t be as useful as a non loss. We’ve played probably 25 scenarios now and have retired 3 characters and judging those loss cards is still a challenge. For the most part they don’t get burned until the end of a scenario when it’s in the bag and you’re maxing your XP gain, HOWEVER pretty much every scenario WILL require the use of burners before the end just to ensure it actually gets finished. Assuming you use them at the right time.
Varies from class to class of course, a character with a hand of 11 can obviously afford a few burners whereas a class with only 8…not so much.
Kinda feel like I should mention the house ruled summons. They will BREAK the game later on. Yes, for most classes summons are highly situational and generally a bit naff, but for the few classes that use them properly house ruling to make summons work differently is going to utterly utterly unbalance everything.
Started my second totally new version with another group, this time kicking off with a Scoundrel. Immediately liked it with the bonus damage for having allies nearby and singling out enemies, totally different to anything I’ve played so far, so interested to see how it goes.
We started on normal, and boy, that first up room is a nasty shock, but we pushed on and just about fell over the line at the end with only one of us exhausted and lots of lessons learned.
This isn’t meant as a negative, more of a question about whether I’m doing something wrong. Does anyone else find that sometimes the scenarios don’t line up thematically or story-wise? I don’t want to spoil plot, so here goes:
I can’t recall the specific mission names, but anyone who’s done this series will probably remember them. Maybe some 5-10 missions in we found our way to a crypt or tomb of some sort with a portal to a realm full of demons. We proceeded to jump in and found ourselves in a choice between serving a demon lord or fighting him.
We killed him so good of course and assumed that was the end of it, but then later on one of the enchanter side quests (the same lady who helps you breathe water) offered us the chance to go to the portal to close it. Now that does kinda make sense that the portal didn’t close just because we killed the demon lord, but the demon boss mission seemed to end with such finality that I felt like maybe we were resolving the same issue twice by closing the portal as well and that perhaps we had accidentally gone up both paths of a branching plot. Couldn’t tell for sure though so we ran with it.
I’m also a little confused why the enchanter helps me breathe water when nothing in the story up to that point seems to indicate it was a goal of mine. Its one of those ones where a mission we did unlocked another series of numbers, but some of those numbered missions don’t necessarily line up with what’s going on
Interesting. I wonder if The Rift Neutralized (incomplete) should have been a requirement for the Ruinous Rift.
If it helps, there are scenario flowcharts in the file section on BGG you can refer to. They go by scenario number, so there should be no spoilers.
We found exactly the same thing with the water breathing reward and so decided to leave that mission unplayed, assuming that the need for the ability would become apparent later which it did, at which point we went back to the skipped mission.
I wondered about that too, but since one scenario didn’t tell me I couldn’t do the other I rationalized it thematically in my head and went ahead with it.
And yes, that does help a lot and I’ll have to go check it out for sure, thanks!
That’s really good to know. I get why it worked the way it did mechanically, but I was uncertain if the thematic elements would tie back in properly. I think the fear is that maybe I missed something so its a relief to know it ties up more neatly if I give it a chance to work its way there.
One possibility: sometimes the scenario end text will reference scenario numbers, which we originally interpreted as unlocking them. But no, if it’s giving you access it will call it out in a specific reward block. The reference numbers are just because the scenario you’ve done is related.
This is good to know. Only done scenarios 1, 2, and 63(?) so far, so I’ll keep an eye out for this difference.
I saw numbers so I slapped on stickers only to realize some of them have requirements I don’t meet or seem to be thematically disconnected somehow. This makes way more sense. I’ll have to watch for this now.
Good call! Some people in my party thought this too.
There is a new gloomhaven expansion coming!
Well actually there are two, this one is designed by one of the main playtesters and designer of a dozen or so of the original scenarios, and Issac is also working on one.
Just saw a thread on BGG that gave a thematic explanation for this:
You kill the Prime Demon and he’s no longer a threat to Gloomhaven, thus the rift is neutralized, but it’s still open, this you can close it. However, if you just close the rift, you no longer have access to attack the Prime Demon.
After a couple months of hiatus due to Gloomhaven burnout we played three games in the span of little over a week! It was a good break and it’s made me appreciate the game again.
I ended my last game with 499 XP… one point shy of reaching level 9 on my fourth character! Bah!
We’re on the path to finish the main storyline and beat the big bad and I imagine we’ll take a break again after that’s accomplished.
Until my friend buys the expansion!
Much earlier in the cycle – 115xp on my first character. My wife just retired her first character and I’m not 40% of the way to the goal. But it’s fun to have someone new in the party.